Ab-initio MID-AIR INCIDENTS

Summary:

Post here any mid-air incidents you have experienced, and help out fellow pilots with theirs.

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My 2nd Solo

JDPerezgonzalez 23 Oct 2008 00:38

[In behalf of Rnadom, originally posted on 22 Oct 2008]

Back in 2007. I was doing some circuits on my second solo, the weather was OK, it was drizzling on 07 end of the runway, so when i got airborne, vis wasnt too good. However as far as i know, there wasnt anyone in the circuit other than me.

Flying on downwind, i was prepared to make my full stop landing. Tower had told me to continue downwind. So i did, and an instructor and his student were joining from the Southern Training Area. Runway 25 was in use, thus they had University Arrival i.e, track overhead university for LEFT Base Runway 25. On my part, i was looking out for them, but because of their aircraft being hidden in the background of mountains, i could not identify them. And tower had radioed me : Msy XXX, turn base. So i made a right base turn. As i got closer towards the extended runway centreline, I spotted the other aircraft. they were maybe 1 mile to my 1 o clock, we werent heading straight on, but we were definitely going in opposite directions.

I knew tower had told them that they were number 2 "behind" me, but because they were slightly to my right, I decided to make a sharp left steep turn to avoid them. Tower must have realised this incident and he told the other aircraft to continue turning Left Base and now he was number 1. Tower told me to join behind the aircraft for number 2.

This ended without incident, and when on the ground, the instructor and i communicated even though we did not point out who's fault it is, we know that we avoided a possibly dangerous moment. There wasnt any follow up to this incident. And tower must have felt it was not a serious incident and thus did not radio base to alert our managers.

- Rnadom.

Last edited on 23 Oct 2008 00:43 by JDPerezgonzalez Show more

VFR nightmare

JDPerezgonzalez 23 Oct 2008 00:41

[In behalf of Rnadom, originally posted on 22 Oct 2008]

On a flight back from New Plymouth, solo, everything was smooth sailing. I was tracking back through controlled airspace by Ohakea. As I passed through Wanganui, Ohakea tells me to descend to 1500 feet clear of controlled airspace because there were a couple of ATRs flying above me. I descended and I was tracking on the northern tip of Marton, to northern tip of Fielding.

Because it is a heavily transited area, this route im on now. The Navigation charts stipulate that Southeast bound traffic (me) track on the Right side of the powerlines and Northwest traffic track on the Right side of the powerlines when they are facing north. Sort of like this.

<------northwest----—-

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ powerlines /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
-----southeast------>

I was flying and as i passed Colyton (3 miles east of fielding), my eye caught something moving and it shocked me. I saw that it was a Cherokee going Northbound but he was tracking ON the powerlines. I did not have any time to take evasive maneuvres but I think the instructor in the aircraft saw me and he climbed while he banked right (so close i could see who was in the plane). U cant really blame either of us for not listening out because from Bunnythorpe(using Palmy frequency 120.6) to Colyton (Fielding frequency 124.1), was just 3 miles away. And it takes 1 minutes for two plane's combined groundspeeds of about 200KT to cover that distance.

At least no one was hurt. I did not report this incident.

- Rnadom.

Last edited on 23 Oct 2008 00:43 by JDPerezgonzalez Show more

Two Cessnas

JDPerezgonzalez 23 Oct 2008 22:41

[In behalf of Anonymous user, originally posted on 22 Oct 2008]

This occurred to me a long time ago. It was one of the first few flights i had as a student pilot. Runway 07 was in use at Palmerston North. We given a University departure to track to the southern training area. Palmerston North, like as many aerodromes around the world, have standard departure and arrival procedures for VFR and IFR traffic. Runway 07 departure procedure to depart south is to turn right once airborne (650 feet) and track towards the southern training area via the university. As such, arriving aircraft for Runway 07 were to track towards Longburn and then to the airfield.

As we were overheard the university, we told Tower that we were clear of controlled airspace. Tower acknowledged and informed us of 2 traffic which were tracking along our direction and they were at the same height. My instructor and i focused our outside, looking for the reported traffic. Out of nowhere, 2 Cessnas flew over us simultaneously. I swore we were no less than 200 feet of the first aircraft and probably a little further than the second Cessna.

Till today, i still cannot understand how and why both the Cessnas track towards the University when clearly they were supposed to track towards Longburn for an arrival of Runway 07. Such an occurence in the early stage of my flight training has made me very aware of the dangers of flying in and out of controlled airspace and i always maintain a good lookout while flying VFR.

Witness to a near miss

JDPerezgonzalez 24 Oct 2008 00:53

[In behalf of SBK981A, originally posted on 22 Oct 2008]

Following on from my previous post about a near miss, I also witnessed one at Palmerston North where a Cherokee and Tomahawk almost collided about 100ft above the runway. I was on a downwind leg for runway 07 and was abeam the threshold, when I saw a Tomahawk descending to land, however right below it was a cherokee that was also landing. The aircraft came with in about 50ft of each other and was only averted when the tower controller looked up and instructed the Tomahawk to go-around. The controllers were in the middle of a shift handover when this occured which may have been why the controller/s didnt see the whole event occur. The Tomahawk was the pilot at fault, as he was instructed to position number 2 behind the cherokee on short final. After landing, I informed ops who filled out an incident report and left it at that. Again situational awareness is key, as you should know where the aircraft that you are following are in relation to you.

SBK981A =)

Circuit Error

JDPerezgonzalez 24 Oct 2008 01:02

[In behalf of Anonymous user, originally posted on 20 Oct 2008]

As i was preparing for my ppl… i had to have sufficient practice on different types of landings…thus during one of my circuits, there was an aircraft from the neighboring aeroclub that came 50 ft (1050ft) below me when their actual circuit altitude was a 100 ft (1200ft) above my circuit altitude (1100ft)and moreover their circuit pattern is not suppose to be near our aerodrome's circuit pattern. Being a solo it really frightened me. This is not only a one of incident there has been heaps of incidents of this manner.

Re: Circuit Error

JDPerezgonzalez 24 Oct 2008 01:03

[In behalf of charliemikehotel, originally posted on 20 Oct 2008]

I've had a couple of similar experiences. Some things I've learned so far in this game are:

- Assume other pilots are idiots and be prepared for anything (just like when you're driving!)
- Never assume a pilot is where their position report says they are
- Trust your eyes before you trust your ears
- Don't rely on ATC for all information and expect them to make mistakes

This may or may not be useful but hey, works for me!

Last edited on 24 Oct 2008 01:04 by JDPerezgonzalez Show more

Re: Circuit Error

JDPerezgonzalez 24 Oct 2008 01:05

[In behalf of Sarah215, originally posted on 21 Oct 2008]

ATC here…
Absolutely we make mistakes - we're only human after all (surprise, isn't it?)
The big thing we ask of pilots to do is query us if you don't understand, or if you think we've got it wrong. The most common thing we're probably going to mess up is telling you to join right base instead of left base, and we'd rather you corrected us and made us look silly than you went flying through the circuit in a weird way. So please, speak up and ask us to make sure we're saying what we mean!

Last edited on 24 Oct 2008 01:05 by JDPerezgonzalez Show more

Re: Circuit Error

JDPerezgonzalez 24 Oct 2008 01:06

[In behalf of charliemikehotel, originally posted on 21 Oct 2008]

Thanks for that. One thing I've noticed as a relative beginner pilot is that flight training tends to (I'm sure unintentionally) instill a perception that ATC is almost like the law. I've talked to flying students who have received spurious instructions from ATC, but have been afraid to question them, or just assumed that ATC must be obeyed, even though the pilot knew the call was wrong. Not sure what could be done to try to break that perception…maybe where possible have student pilots spend time in a tower getting a feel for what it's like and seeing controllers as real people instead of just a disembodied voice!

Re: Circuit Error

JDPerezgonzalez 24 Oct 2008 01:08

[In behalf of Sarah215, originally posted on 22 Oct 2008]

Many towers will happily accept visitors - whether you are based on the field or just flying through. If possible, ring them beforehand to arrange a time as they may refuse if they are training new controllers. Try to keep any groups to around 2-3 people unless you have an instructor bringing up a group - in domestic towers, often there will only be one or two controllers working and they won't always have time to talk. But you might enjoy watching and hearing what goes on from the other side!
Sometimes the instructions you'll get from ATC will seem strange or indirect, but usually we have a good reason to move you about in the sky! Generally we find that newer pilots don't have as good a situational awareness as (for instance) airline pilots and the controller has to keep the whole overview picture. So maybe you'll get an extra track mile or two but it will be to help make circuit integration or traffic spotting easier for you and us.

Head to head with cessna

Anonymous (130.123.128.x) 29 Oct 2008 04:04

This was happened last month on my CPL handling training. I was flying with one of the students. It was runway 25 in use. And we had a Longburn daparture. The wind was calm at about 6 kts from North Westerly. I then continue to fly at STA for one hour. On the way back, I was listern to the ATIS and the runway in use was changed to 07. I was climbing out from the L366(Low Flying Area) from 500ft to 1500ft. Then I positioned my self to fly towards Longburn. As we thought by Massey from the beginning of our training, if runway 07 in use it means that any traffic that going out from PM heading towards south, they must head their aircraft towards university then to Tokomaru, which is on the east of Longburn, therefore avoiding any traffic which wants to join to PM. I then broadcast myself that I was 2 NM south of Longburn at 1500ft. However on the radio, somebody broadcast and said that they was 5NM NW of Tokomaru at 1500ft which is very close to Longburn and also the same altitude as me. This aircraft was from PM. I realized that he was somewhere in front of me. Then I took an immediate descent to 1300ft and transmit myself while I was descending. There was no time for me to do a proper lookout. Then 2 second later, a cessna flew exactly overhead my aircraft at about 100 ft above me. It was lucky that we had a little bit of seperation, otherwise something else was happened.

From that incident I learnt that we have to be ready to make a quick and good decison for safety purposes. And also the air is wide but there is no time for Error..

Near miss

Anonymous (203.184.26.x) 29 Oct 2008 06:15

On a solo cross-country exercise pre-cpl I was taking a passenger on a flight to woodbourne and down to kaikoura, weather was perfect and could see all visual features from many miles away. We stopped in KI and on the return portion of the flight we touched and go'd at woodbourne, ATC gave us instructions to leave the control zone up the coast on track to tory, the last part of their message was quite interfered and hard to understand but I thought it had some traffic information in it, I readback and just said copy traffic even though I had not understood the traffic information, anyway I was keeping a good lookout and 5-10 miles out of the control zone I spotted a twin engined aircraft 11 o clock level, it was a good distance away but it scared me alot as it wasnt moving which meant it was headed on a collision course, I descended immediately and the flight proceeded without more incident

Things to note here are:

• Always understand ATC instructions before reading back
• Dont readback when you dont understand just because your in a rush

Re: Ab-initio MID-AIR INCIDENTS

Anonymous (130.123.128.x) 31 Oct 2008 02:15

I was flying at southern training area, which is exactly 3 miles to the north west of shannon. I was practicing my basic handling to prepare for my flight test. There was 8 traffic on the area, it was very busy. the visibility is around 30 km. when i made my radio call, told everyone that i was 3 miles to the north west of shannon, everyone response to it, and each aircraft report their position, when i heard the radio call there was not any aircraft close to my position, so i continue doing my steep turn practice, and suddenly one aircraft nearly collide with me,he was flying on top of me, i am really sure that we are just closed enough to collide, the distance is about 100 feet apart from each other. but the point of the mistake is that person who is flying on top of me did not make any radio call, that he was operating near shannon. therefore accident nearly occurred.

Confusing Cessna

Anonymous (130.123.128.x) 03 Nov 2008 10:39

This was happened two months ago on my CPL handling flight. I was flying with my mate. The weather was in clear sky condition therefore it was about 7 traffic at the same time in the training area. Me and my friend most of the time was busy looking after of the other traffic around us. But eventually my flight was ok at the end of my practice. On the way back to palmerston. I was flying at 1500 ft at about tokomaru joining for runway 25. I then broadcast my self to the radio that I am in Overhead tokomaru at 1500 ft. However some one was replying and said that they are just 1NM behind me to joining for palmerston as well, it was a cessna 152. I then contact tower and request for clearence. However the tower was busy and I decided to orbit overhead Linton at the same altitude. I then transmit to Manawatu traffic that I am orbiting, so the aircraft behind me is aware that I was orbiting. As I wait for the response for the Cessna, I kept looking out where the position of that aircraft was. at the same time we missed it. I couldn't see any traffic behind me. Then I talk to the radio and ask where his position relative to my aircraft. He then reply that he was still at tokomaru. I then relaxed because its quite a far away from me about 2 NM. As I was orbiting, I saw one aircraft infront of me (university) about 0.5 miles. I then sort of confuse because I thought that I am the only one in the area. Then I found that it was that cessna, he was giving a wrong reporting point. Then I reversed my turn to the right so I kept him insight. I then talk to him so he understand what the situation was. After 1 minute I lost him again for some reason. Then I ask my friend to help the lookout. Then after a while I got him insight and he was 0.5 NM behind me at about north of Tokomaru at the same altitude. It was strange bacause he said that he will keep orbiting in University and change his position without telling other traffic. It was a quite scary for me flying with that cessna, because it is a dangerous attitude. Then at the end of the day I went inside PM first and then the cessna was behind me.

From this I learnt that, flying is not just considering for ourself, we also have to give any information to other airspace users. So seperation between aircraft can be made.

Re: Ab-initio MID-AIR INCIDENTS

Anonymous (60.234.221.x) 04 Nov 2008 03:27

This incident occurred while i was back seating a flight from the southern training area. we were headed back to Palmy and Atis received said RWY 07 was in use thus a longburn arrival was made. Being still on the 122.6 frequency , at 1500ft 2nm south longburn, we heard an aircraft giving a position report that he was 2
north of longburn at 1500ft en-route south, which meant he was coming head on with us. He gave another position report would put him well clear of us ( 2 North west of tokomaru at 1500ft) , we saw no aircraft within that vicinity. The PIC decided that it was safer to descend to 1000ft and remain on track towards longburn. Once overhead longburn, we only than spotted the Aircraft which was now only one north of longburn still at 1500ft tracking south. If we hadnt descended to 1000ft, it would have been a very close call cause we were close enough to read off the side of the A/C registration easily. It is very hard to spot the aircraft when approaching head on especially when they do not on their landing lights.

It is just very frustrating with other pilots do no make accurate position reports and i feel landing light should be left on even in the day cause it really does help other pilots spot the traffic given such a scenario.

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